LDS Business College Devotional
November 3, 2009
It’s nice to be here with you all
this morning. I always wonder, when I’m asked to speak in church venues like
this on this topic. It seems like it’s kind of difficult to have the Spirit and
talk about something like this, but I think the beautiful music helped, and I
liked Zach’s thought—particularly two things. One, I liked the skirt and tights
analogy, because I think it was just this Sunday when I passed my daughter
Hannah and said, “Hannah, isn’t that skirt a little short?”
She said, “It’s okay, Dad. I’m
I thought, “Well, okay.” So I’m
glad for the clarification. It didn’t make the dress longer.
But I think the other piece of
what he said is critically important, and that is being prepared. And while
Zach may have shown up to church not quite shaven and his tie was a little
loose, the important thing is that his hands and his heart were clean and pure.
And I think that’s what we all need to strive for, because we never know when
that moment may come where we have an opportunity to put our priesthood to work
or serve someone in some capacity, and we need to always be ready and willing
to serve the Lord.
The title that I’ve chosen today
is “Reach for the Light: Hope, Help and Recovery from Pornography Use or
Addiction.” And I say “use or addiction” because there are varying degrees of
pornography use. Obviously, we as LDS Church members believe that any
pornography use is detrimental and wrong, whether it’s an addiction or not.
Some people have a severe addiction; some people may only dabble in it. But
either way, spiritually the consequences are just as serious.
And please, as I’m speaking, if
you have a question and want to ask it, that’s fine. This is just a small
enough venue to be able to take questions.
I think Craig did a good job of explaining
why it’s ubiquitous. Pornography is ubiquitous. If you don’t know what that
word means, that’s okay. I didn’t either a few years ago. It means that
pornography is everywhere. We can’t escape it, no matter where we go, what we
do, what we watch, we are going to in some ways come in contact with
pornography of some sort. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that. But does
that make sense? Is there a day that goes by where something that is
pornographic in nature doesn’t come across your path—whether it’s a TV program,
music, something by accident? It may not be what we’d consider hard-core
pornography, but it could be some other source.
So, what is pornography? Well,
it’s a hard thing to define, so I’ll give you a couple of definitions. Anything
that induces an inappropriate sexual interest for that person. Now that’s very
general and not real specific, but it’s fitting, because what is pornography
for one person may not be pornography for another person. And I’ll get a little
more into that. Another definition is material of no artistic or literary value
designed to stimulate and arouse sexually; it can be written materials,
photographs, films, television programs, electronic images, animation,
sexually-oriented chat rooms, telephone sex, etc. And as technology increases,
the ways that pornography is presented increase as well. And so it’s hard to
have a working, operational definition that doesn’t keep changing.
Let me just read you one thing
that Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said. This was in 1964, which was
back when the Supreme Court and the pornographers were battling to try to
determine what was legal and what was covered under free speech and what
wasn’t. Of course, pornographers were trying to say “anything we want to say
and do is protected under the Constitution under free speech.” And he made this
statement, which I think is true. In trying to explain hard-core pornography or
what is obscene by saying, “I shall not today attempt to further define the
kinds of material I understand to be embraced, but I know it when I see it.”
And I think any of you who have seen pornography know what it is, because it
makes you feel something, and it’s usually not something good. There may be a
curiosity, something that draws you to it, but there’s also a feeling that’s
telling you this isn’t good. And what would that feeling be? The Holy Ghost,
the Light of Christ—you know when you see it, this is bad. This isn’t going to
be good. And I think that’s what he was using, and I like that definition
because somebody can be looking at the J.C. Penney catalog and be looking at
the lingerie section, and to them, that may be pornography if it induces
inappropriate thoughts and feelings. And so it’s one of those things that it’s
really hard to say, this is okay and this isn’t. It’s really up to the
Let’s talk a little bit about the
scope of the problem. I don’t want to bore you with a lot of statistics, but I
want to give you some. If we look at the money, it’s a 56 billion dollar a year
industry, and that was a few years back. There are other estimates that I have
seen that are as high as a hundred billion dollars a year, which is enormous
amounts of money. In the United States alone, it’s about a 13 billion dollar a
year industry. So there’s big money in it, and that’s one reason you’re seeing
new websites, new magazines, new movies, things like that constantly come out
to be made. People are going to try to make that money.
One of the issues we’ve kind of
battled with a little bit is the involvement of mainstream corporate America,
and corporations really throughout the world. It’s another issue that cuts
across all social and economic and racial divides. There’s no area in the world
that is free or safe from pornography, and it affects everyone, men and women
alike. There are certainly more men that are involved in pornography, but
unfortunately we are seeing an increase in women’s involvement in pornography,
even to the point where there is pornography now being marketed, and their
touch-term is “pornography for women by women,” meaning that it’s made by
women, designed, written by women, and it kind of caters to a different mindset
than male-oriented pornography. Males are very visually oriented, and so most
male pornography is visual. Female pornography has a story line; it may have a
romantic flavor to it. But it’s still pornographic.
One executive for a large company
called Centex said it this way, “Dollars is dollars.” He went on to say, “We’re
not perverts. It’s not like we’re selling drugs. But dollars is dollars, and
wherever we can make money, we’re going to make money.” Just to give you an
idea, these are some of the major corporations that help fuel the pornography
industry—AT&T, MCI, Time-Warner, DirectTV, Hilton, Marriott, Sheraton, Radisson,
VISA, MasterCard, American Express. And the list really goes on and on and on.
It’s amazing how many corporations in America about ten years ago saw that this
is a place where we can make a lot of money. In fact, it’s the one industry
that you always make money at. And that’s a sad commentary on both sides. It’s
sad that people are exploiting it because they can make money, and that people
are drawn to it and becoming addicted, and it’s ruining their lives.
It brings in more revenue than the
NFL, NBA, and Major League baseball combined. And you know how much sports
figures make, and the amount of money advertising that those industries generate.
Pornography far outsells them. So it’s a big problem. And you probably already
knew that, but I think it’s important to keep that in mind, because it’s easy
to sort of put your head in the sand and say, “Well, it doesn’t affect me. I
don’t look at it. I’m not going to worry about it.” But we all have to worry
about it. You know someone that’s affected by it when you—are all of you
single? Are some of you married? I don’t know the demographics. Some married
people? Okay. Your children will be exposed to pornography. Right now the
average age of exposure is 11 years old—at 11 years old, children are now
stumbling on or being exposed to pornography in some way. So it’s not a problem
that we can ignore.
In the Doctrine and Covenants, in
section 89, we’ve got some great information on the Word of Wisdom. But one of
the things that it says there I think applies to pornography and what I just
shared about the money for it: “In the hearts of conspiring men in the last
days.” (v. 4) And I think that it’s not just tobacco, alcohol, and drugs of
some type, but pornography I think also is being used by conspiring men in the
last days. And women, unfortunately. I don’t want to be sexist—it crosses both.
In fact, I think Playboy magazine
corporation is now run by a woman, Hugh’s daughter.
A few years back, when I was asked
to come to headquarters, I was the agency director in Los Angeles, and I had
done some work with pornography addiction and sexual addictions, and I got a
phone call from my boss at headquarters who asked me to come to Salt Lake and
be the pornography specialist. And I said, “No thanks. Thanks, but no thanks.”
And he called back and said, “Well, we really want you to do that.” And I
struggled with it a bit and agreed to do it and came up and just—you know, rest
easy, I never had to look at pornography to become the specialist. My role was
to see what best practices were out there for treatment and training so that we
could bring our staff up to speed. But I went to a training once by the late
Dr. Al Cooper, who has now been dead for about four years, and he termed
something he called “the triple-A engine.” And it’s really one of the things
that has made pornography just explode in the last 15 years or so. Obviously,
the advent of the Internet is responsible for the huge increase in pornography.
But the three things in the “triple-A engine” were accessibility—now at the
click of a mouse you can find anything you want and usually everything you
don’t want; affordability—it’s relatively cheap or free; and the notion that
it’s anonymous, that you can do it in the privacy of your own bedroom, house,
apartment, phone, wherever—that there’s this anonymity that goes along with it,
which is somewhat true. But as you know, in the age of electronics, there’s
really nothing you do on the Internet that can’t be discovered, can’t be found.
But those three things really exploded the pornography industry.
And then what you had, with the Internet,
you had other companies jumping onboard, and a lot of the technology that we benefit
from today in terms of audio, video and even electronic use of credit cards,
began with the pornography industry, so people could buy it easier. You know,
back when I was a kid, if you wanted to find pornography you had to go into a
store someplace and actually purchase a magazine. And that was embarrassing and
shameful, and if you were a kid, you weren’t allowed to do it. But when the Internet
came, that changed it. So people who maybe never looked at pornography before
had that opportunity, and sometimes all it took was curiosity to get them to
take that first step. And as we know from other addictions, sometimes once you
take that first step it’s really hard to turn around and go backward.
So to the question, “Is
pornography addictive?” by show of hands, let me just ask you. How many of you
think pornography is an addiction? It’s okay if you don’t; I’m fine with that.
Okay, it looks like a lot of you do. And I do as well, for two reasons. One is
because the prophet has said so. President Gordon B. Hinckley, in May of 1998,
said this: “Stay away from pornography as you would avoid a serious disease. It
is destructive. It can become habitual, and those who indulge in it get so they
cannot leave it alone. It is addictive.” [“Living Worthy of the Girl You Will
Someday Marry,” Ensign, May 1998, 49]
So if a prophet says it, it’s good enough for me. I work with a lot of
colleagues who aren’t LDS and they’re experts in this area, and there’s still a
lot of debate about whether it’s addictive like other things that we have
already identified. But the prophet says it is, and that’s good enough for me.
From my own experience in working
with people and seeing the lengths that people are willing to go to to use
pornography also have convinced me that it is addictive. I’ve seen people lose
everything, and I mean their job, the love of their children, their marriage,
the love of their spouse, their Church membership. Everything that really
matters to us they have lost, and for what? Really nothing. So when somebody is
willing to give up everything that matters most for nothing, that’s an
However, recently we’re fortunate,
because there’s been a lot more interest in it from the academic world and the
scientific community. Some of you may know Dr. Donald Hilton. He is a
neurosurgeon in Houston. He’s LDS; he’s spoken here a couple of times in Utah,
and he’s done a lot of work on pornography and trying to determine whether it
is addictive or not. So he’s conducting studies using FMRI imaging to look at
the mind and the brain and the effects on the brain when people have used
pornography. What he is finding is that it mimics exactly the same affects when
somebody uses drugs. They’ve looked at cocaine, methamphetamines, the
opiates—and then they’ve looked at pornography, and the same centers of the
brain that are triggered, and the same areas of the brain that actually shrink
with addiction, shrink with pornography addiction.
So we know from that that there is
a biochemical connection. Anybody that’s ever seen pornography knows it,
because things change in their body—heart rate increases, pupils dilate,
breathing changes. I mean, it really changes you physiologically. Some people will say, “Well there’s no good
research,” and there’s some truth to that. The research is coming in, but there
are not a lot of articles in tier one journals on this issue. But it will be
where we are going in the future. And I wouldn’t be surprised if, like with
other addictions, we are able to biochemically start to treat it like we can for
some of the opiate addictions.
Any questions at this point? Are
you still awake? The question was, how can you tell if someone is addicted to
it? That’s a really good question, and it’s somewhat difficult to determine.
But one of the things that I use, and it’s very simple, is, have you tried to
stop and been unable to. And if the
answer is yes, then you’re addicted. Now usually, the answer is, “Yes, about a
hundred times.” And they can’t stop. They’ve tried this and this and this, and
they can’t stop. If that’s the case, then it is an addiction. And usually they
need some help, and we’ll talk a bit more about that. We’re not going to go
into treatment a lot today, just for the sake of time, but feel free if any of
you have questions and we don’t get to them today, I’ll be around for a few
welcome to email me. Just say, I was at the devotional and I had a question.
And I’ll be happy to try to answer it. It may take me a day or two, but I will
get to it.
So, in Dr. Hilton’s work, what he
has identified is some of the drugs that it releases in your body. There’s
adrenaline, dopamine, oxytocin and vasopressin. Oxytocin and vasopressin are
sort of hormone-type drugs that are used to create attachments. Mothers produce
oxytocin in breast milk and it’s one of the things that help children bond to
their mother. The scary thing about pornography is it’s producing similar
hormones and creating a bond between the addict and the pornography. And
anytime you start talking about bonds, you start talking about addictions and
making it much more difficult to break, to make those changes. He’s written a
good book—I don’t know if I can mention books here, is that okay? He just wrote
a great book, probably the best one on pornography addiction, and it’s called He Restoreth My Soul by Donald Hilton.
It has a subtitle, but I don’t know what that is. I think it’s available at
Deseret Book, and if you Google it, you can always find anything that you want.
So I would recommend that if you want to learn a little more about it that you
look at that book, because he looks at it both from the scientific side, but
also heavy emphasis on the spiritual side. And we’ll get to that in just a
But let me just say that the costs
of pornography—not monetary costs but the effects and the damages, the personal
price that people pay because of pornography, are huge. The effects on women, I
think, are very detrimental; whether women look at pornography or not, what it
does to men and the way men think is very damaging to women—they’re
objectified, they’re sometimes victimized. Again, the industry says there’s no
correlation or connection between pornography and violence, yet there’s a lot
of very good anecdotal evidence, and there is beginning to be some good
empirical evidence that says pornography does lead to violence.
One of the assignments I have at
Church headquarters is to answer the Church’s abuse hotline. For those of you
who don’t know what that is, it’s a 24-hour help line for ecclesiastical
leaders to call whenever they learn of any type of child abuse, whether it’s
physical abuse or sexual abuse. The bishop’s supposed to call us and then we
help them decide what needs to be done—is there a report that needs to be made,
can you get this person into treatment. And every single time, when there’s
sexual abuse, pornography is involved. Now we can’t say pornography caused the
abuse, because we don’t know cause and effect. But there’s definitely a
correlation between pornography and abuse. And we see it most dramatically with
young men—young boys from the age of 12 to 16 who are addicted to pornography,
become curious, and then end up unfortunately victimizing a younger sister or a
niece or someone like that. So the costs to women are huge, and the long-term
effects are big.
The effects on relationships—my
personal view is that it’s impossible to have a good, intimate relationship if
pornography is involved in either person’s life. And when I say intimate, I’m
not talking about sex per se; that’s part of it, but I’m talking about
emotional, mental, spiritual intimacy—having that connection with a partner
that is what marriage is intended to be. If pornography is involved, you are
not going to have that. Even in relationships where the wife says, “Oh, I don’t
care. It’s okay if he looks at pornography,” it’s damaging to that
The effects on the person who’s
using pornography—their self-esteem goes down, it creates a lot of shame and
guilt. Spiritually, obviously, the Spirit is driven away and really can’t come
back and dwell with that person as long as they’re using pornography. And I
think one of the more difficult things is being of service to others. If
somebody is addicted to pornography, they’re not going to be ready to serve the
Lord when that call comes, whether it’s to give a priesthood blessing or accept
a calling. They’re not going to be spiritually ready to make the kind of
contribution that they can.
The effects on society, I think we
see. It’s touted as “it’s okay; it does no harm.” We know better than that. Not
just because you’re so smart because you go to LDS Business College but because
you’re children or adults of the covenant. You know the truth. You know what
right and wrong is, and you know that it’s something that can destroy our
society. Crime increases.
QUESTION: If someone goes to their
bishop for help, is there a cost for treatment or is it through the Church?
ANSWER: There are both. If somebody makes a living
providing treatment specifically to this problem, or just does it as part of
this practice, then there’s usually a fee associated with it just like any
therapy fee. Bishops often refer people in and there’s a fee, so if the member
isn’t able to pay, then the bishop is able to pay through fast offering funds.
That’s an approved use of fast offering funds. However, there are 12-step
support groups for addictions and for pornography that are free of charge, and
there are some clinics that offer free services. So if somebody really wants
treatment and money is an issue, or something they have used as an excuse not
to get help, it really can be obtained without money.
QUESTION: Can you explain what the
12-step groups are?
ANSWER: Sure. Are most of you
familiar with Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous?
What the Church did a few years back was they took those twelve steps and just
altered them slightly. They didn’t change them, other than the original twelve
steps, one of them, says we “rely on a higher power.” It used to, years ago, say
“God,” but at some time it was changed to “a higher power” so it could be
anybody’s anything. So what we do is we refer to that as Jesus Christ, because
we know that Christ is our higher power, and Heavenly Father. So we just kind
of make it cleaner and clearer. So the 12-step program is basically the
equivalent of somebody going to AA or any of the other anonymous groups and
working the steps. And if you aren’t familiar with the steps, whether you have
an addiction or not, I would encourage you to read the steps because they’re
wonderful. And if we all were to work
those steps and to live them, we would be better Latter-day Saints. And you can
get the addiction recovery manual, which is the 12-step manual—you can download
it for free on the Church’s website. So LDS Family Services has a website, and
you can go there and download it for free. So I would encourage you to take a
look at that, just for your own curiosity, and someone may come along that you
can refer them to.
So the positives. Let’s talk a little
bit about change, because the first thing I want to say is that change is
possible. Everybody needs hope. People who are struggling with addiction, I
think particularly a sexual addiction, lose hope. Why do they lose hope?
Because they have tried repeatedly to stop, on their own, usually, and failed.
Sometimes they’ve gone to their bishop and asked for help, and they have
failed. And they don’t have to fail. You can overcome this, but it does take a
few things. It takes a lot of hard work, and it takes help. It’s not something
you can do alone. And I believe that. The longer I’ve worked with people, the
more I believe that you can’t do it alone. In fact, the first step in the 12
steps is admitting that, basically, you are powerless to overcome this problem
on your own.
So, what that means is that you
have the Lord. You always have to rely on the Lord. You have to rely on the
Lord’s anointed—His bishops or branch presidents, or stake presidents, mission
president—whoever is your ecclesiastical leader should be involved in that
recovery process. And then obviously, repentance is a key. And one of the
things that we’ve—I don’t know if we’ve discovered it, but we’ve recognized
it—is there is really two parts that have to be done when somebody is dealing
with any addiction. There’s the repentance piece, which is between the
individual and the Savior. It’s when you access the Atonement and use that to
heal from anything. And isn’t it true that the Atonement can overcome any
problem that you have? Do you believe that? I hope so, because it can.
But in addition to just
repentance—I’ve seen people come in, they’ve got the broken heart and the
contrite spirit. They want to change. This problem is making their life
miserable. They’re sincere, and they repent, and I think they’re forgiven. But
they slip back up. Does that mean they didn’t repent? Well, I can’t say. But
what I can say is repentance alone, in most cases, isn’t enough. Somebody has
to repent, and then they have to work some kind of recovery program, whether
that’s a 12-step program or what their bishop advises them to do. There has to
What Dr. Hilton has discovered
with addictions in general is that it takes about 18 months for the brain to
get back to normal after a substance addiction. That’s a long time, 18 months.
And what he is surmising and trying to prove is that it takes as long for a
sexual addiction. So people who repent and maybe go to counseling a few times
and then, they’re feeling good, they’re not struggling. They stop. And they
haven’t changed behaviors, they haven’t changed thoughts, they haven’t changed
some of the things that might have led them into addictions. And every time
they do that, their hope diminishes a little bit more, they get a little more
discouraged, and eventually they give up and they just quit trying. So we can’t
do that. We’ve got to get the message out there that people can change no
matter how low they have gotten in this.
I personally have worked with
people that have come full circle and continue to do great. And I believe the
key is the Atonement. Without the Atonement, I think it’s very difficult. There
are non-members, obviously, who overcome it, but they use a higher power. And I
think that same higher power is Jesus Christ; they just don’t really know it.
So the cure is possible.
Let me just touch briefly on the
Combating Pornography website. When I first came to headquarters, that was the
first thing I said, “The Church has no information to deal with this problem.”
I searched the Internet. There were articles, you know, conference addresses
and things like that, there are Ensign
articles, but that was it. There was nothing that brought it all together and
really provided help. So for five years I worked tirelessly to try to get
approval to try to do a website. If
you’ve worked for the Church in some fashion, it’s a bureaucracy and there’s a
bit of red tape and it takes a while. But finally we got the attention of the
people that matter, who are the Brethren, and once they got ahold of that idea,
it started happening. So about a year ago, we started designing a website and
building it, and with luck we’ll get it launched either at the end of the year
or the beginning of next year. It’s done, but we’ve got IT and correlation to
get through, and again, just approval from the First Presidency or maybe just
the Bishopric. Once that’s done, it will provide hope and help for members.
What we’ve done and what I’ve done
is, there are five audiences that we’re focusing on in the website. Those are
individuals, which is a better way than saying addicts. We want the site to be
uplifting and hopeful. We don’t want, “You’re an addict. You’re the struggler.”
They know they’re the struggler. So they’re the individuals; that’s the addict.
Second is the spouses, which is huge—spouses hurt over this problem, I think,
more than the individuals do, if you’re married. Parents hurt more, sometimes,
than their children do. So there’s individuals, spouses, parents, youth—we’re
trying to tailor some things for youth, because again, 11 years old and they’re
getting introduced—and then leaders, meaning church leaders primarily, but the
site is generic enough that if it’s a rabbi, or if it’s a Catholic priest, or
anybody, they are welcome to use this site.
Then within those five audiences,
we’ve got four main areas of focus, and that’s prevention, recognition,
overcoming the problem, and then support to remain porn-free and stay out of it
in the future. As I said, it’s a new site. It’s not perfect. I’ve already got
my mind wrapped around phase two, which will be a lot more interactive. This
site is basically information only. There’s not a lot of interaction. There are
some video clips and some audio clips and things like that, but it’s not a
really interactive site, which I think we need. And so phase two, hopefully we
can incorporate some of those things.
The site doesn’t look like most
Church sites. There’s no blue in it, or very little blue. It’s green, and we
did green because it represents hope, spring, a new life, a turning over and
changing. So it’s kind of just got a clean, fresh feel to it. And the goal was
to draw people to it and then within the site they can learn things that lead
them to help—a bishop, hopefully, therapy if necessary. And there’s a lot of
ways that people can get help.
But the key, really, is the
Atonement. And I can’t stress that enough. I just think, in my experience it’s
interesting that people come in and they’ve struggled with this problem, say,
for ten years and they’ve been to five bishops. And they say, “You know, the
bishop has never been helpful. All he says is, ‘Study your scriptures, say your
prayers, come to church.’ And I’ve done that, and it didn’t work.”
And I say, “Okay, well, let’s look
at some other things.” And so, we spend time and we look at some other things.
But in the meantime, I say, “You know, your bishop’s telling you to do these
things, and I want you to do them. And I promise you that if you do them,
you’ll be blessed. It won’t hurt you. You’ll be blessed if you do them.” And so
a year later, the person’s clean from pornography, no problems for a year, and
they’re doing great. And I’ll say, “What do you think were the critical things
that got you out of it and keep you out of it?”
Guess what they all say? Saying
your prayers, studying your scriptures, and fulfilling your Church
responsibilities. And so the problem is not that those things that the bishop
says to do were the wrong things; it may be more a function of timing and other
issues that have to be resolved while they’re doing these other things. And in
the past, all they did was those things. And so, we’re trying—and it’s
difficult to train bishops. Not that they don’t want training, but we don’t
have the authority from the Brethren to tell bishops how and what to do.
It’s been interesting—we’re doing
a pilot study down at BYU. There are 25 stakes there, and we got permission to
work under Elder Hafen and Elder Snow and Frasier Bullock to create some
information for bishops—assessment, developing a repentance plan, support, and
kind of getting bishops a little bit better trained—because in any student ward
you have a large problem. Hopefully it will go well, and we’ll be able to share
that with other priesthood leaders.
QUESTION: How do we help our
children, whether they’re not here yet, or those who have children, to stay
away from pornography and avoid its evil influence?
ANSWER: There are a couple of
things. One, probably the most important thing, is education—talking to your
kids about pornography. Talking to your kids about sex is very important. A lot
of parents don’t do enough sex education. So kids need to know and understand,
not just “don’t do it; it’s wrong” but why. So a comprehensive approach to
teaching them about the dangers, the risks of pornography, what it can do to
people, as well as certainly taking precautions—just the general, basic things.
No child should have a computer with Internet access in their bedroom. Any
house computer should be in an open area.
I have a list of some other
things, so if you want to email me, I’d be happy to send that out. Let me just
say in closing, these are the things that I think we have to do. One, instill
hope. We have to keep people hopeful that change is possible. Use the Lord’s
anointed servants, and certainly use the Lord. People have to develop a
relationship with the Lord to help them overcome this problem. Parents can play
a vital role, if you’re a child or living under their direction. Spouses can
play a vital role—not to be the policeman or fix it, but they can play the role
of support. The role of professionals, sometimes, is important. And then those
daily things that the person themselves have to do—their work, their
scriptures, their basic everyday efforts to stay away from pornography. Because
you can’t avoid it.
And that’s another problem that I
really didn’t have time to get into. People have to be okay to say, “Okay, I
saw something that triggered a thought, but that’s all it did. I don’t have to
act on it; I don’t have to dwell on it. I can go back to mowing the lawn” or
whatever you were doing. But people tend to focus too much and say, “Oh, I
can’t think about that! I can’t think about that!” And by doing that, they end
up thinking about the very thing they’re trying not to think about.
So thank you, and I hope this was
meaningful, and maybe we’ll talk again.